Talk:City of Pensacola
Revision as of 01:25, 6 February 2009 by 143.88.67.50 (talk)
Can we try to locate an accurate map featuring current city limits? dcosson ··· talk 11:11, 10 November 2007 (CST)
- I made a map taken from the Property Appraiser's website.[1] It's pretty accurate to the street level. I wonder if Pensacola city limits should get its own page or just redirect here? --Admin 13:15, 10 November 2007 (CST)
Dates of incorporation
I'm finding all sorts of dates regarding when Pensacola was incorporated as a city. It's complicated by amendments to the act(s) of incorporation (by both U.S. and Florida legislatures, apparently), the adoption of (and amendments to) the Florida constitution(s), etc., etc., ad nauseum. It would be nice to have the dates, but damned if I know how to sort them out. — admin • talk 17:38, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
- It's complicated. It has been incorporated, dissolved, and reincorporated several times. I think the City considers its original incorporation to be when Jackson established city limits, although Florida was a new U.S. territory, and there was no legal incorporation procedure, etc. That was in 1821. In 1885, the State Legislature revoked Pensacola's charter (although I don't know if that refers to a charter granted by Jackson with his authority as territorial governor, or something passed after statehood in 1845). In 1895 Pensacola was reincorporated with a new charter. The same thing happened again in 1913 and 1931. — dscosson • talk 18:42, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
- Yeah, the thing is, none of the dates I've been finding are even the ones related to the charter or listed on the seal. In an 1875 federal suit, Milner's Administrator v. City of Pensacola, the judge mentions that "Pensacola was incorporated as a town by a special but public act of the legislature passed in 1839. By another special act in 1856, it was incorporated as the city of Pensacola." Then the state constitution of 1868 set up a new "uniform system of county, township, and municipal government," and Pensacola officials apparently reorganized the government after this and tried to disavow all previous city debts (thus the lawsuit). So while digging around for that 1839 date, I found some Senate records that... well, just look for yourself. It's a record of legislation from Florida's territorial council, and the following dates are all given for acts to incorporate (or to amend acts to incorporate) the City of Pensacola "and improve the public roads in the neighborhood thereof":
- June 28, 1823
- December 10, 1824
- December 3, 1825
- December 10, 1825
- January 6, 1827
- November 21, 1829
- February 16, 1833 ("and to repeal the act entitled 'An act to incorporate the city of Pensacola, and improve the public roads in the neighborhood thereof,' approved December 5, 1825")
- February 11, 1837 ("to amend the charter of the city of Pensacola")
- March 2, 1839 ("and repeal the act entitled 'An act to incorporate the city of Pensacola, and improve the public roads in the neighborhood thereof,' approved February [??], 1833")
- Yikes! — admin • talk 19:22, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
- Haha, this is Pensacola. If you're looking for a single, shining incorporation date, you're not going to find one. The initial date in your list is the first legislative incorporation of the City, rather, the date of the first "official" incorporation of the first incarnation of City of Pensacola. Between that initial "official" incorporation in 1823 and the dissolution of the City as a legal entity in 1885, the City was reincorporated several times. In 1885, the City of Pensacola ceased to exist legally and was replaced by the Provisional Municipality of Pensacola. The City of Pensacola was reincorporated in 1895, and again in 1913 and 1931.
- How you write this I guess depends on whether you want to frame the question in a legal sense or in a practical sense. Legally? The current legal entity that is the City of Pensacola has only existed since 1931. Practically? Andrew Jackson established or unofficially incorporated the City in 1821, and it has been dissolved and reincorporated a slew of times since. — dscosson • talk 21:14, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
- It's not that I'm looking for a single date to say "Pensacola was incorporated here," just that I'd like to what each one means. But if we're sure that June 28, 1823 was the earliest date of incorporation by the territorial assembly... that'll be a good start. — admin • talk 14:21, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
- That, I would say, is the first legal, legislative incorporation. 143.88.67.50 01:25, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
- It's not that I'm looking for a single date to say "Pensacola was incorporated here," just that I'd like to what each one means. But if we're sure that June 28, 1823 was the earliest date of incorporation by the territorial assembly... that'll be a good start. — admin • talk 14:21, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
- Yeah, the thing is, none of the dates I've been finding are even the ones related to the charter or listed on the seal. In an 1875 federal suit, Milner's Administrator v. City of Pensacola, the judge mentions that "Pensacola was incorporated as a town by a special but public act of the legislature passed in 1839. By another special act in 1856, it was incorporated as the city of Pensacola." Then the state constitution of 1868 set up a new "uniform system of county, township, and municipal government," and Pensacola officials apparently reorganized the government after this and tried to disavow all previous city debts (thus the lawsuit). So while digging around for that 1839 date, I found some Senate records that... well, just look for yourself. It's a record of legislation from Florida's territorial council, and the following dates are all given for acts to incorporate (or to amend acts to incorporate) the City of Pensacola "and improve the public roads in the neighborhood thereof":
